Are we allowed to hate Hitler?
This was prompted by another forum I am on at floridasportsman.com.
This was prompted by another forum I am on at floridasportsman.com.
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 earl40
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Love the person hate the sin? |
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Settler
Posts: 2160 11/05/09 12:25 PM |
Earl,A man married to a girl named Tina.
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Merrily Spinning |
Ordo amoris | #1 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 529 11/05/09 12:40 PM |
[deleted because I'm not satisfied with what I wrote and I'm too tired right now to try to put into the right words]
Last Edited By: Merrily Spinning 11/05/09 05:39 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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ovbc |
Perfect hatred. | #2 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 5307 11/05/09 01:23 PM |
Psalm 139:21-22
21 Do not I hate them, O Lord, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? 22 I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. To add a smidge of context, this is not an imprecatory psalm. It's just a prayer of general nature including rejoicing, thanksgiving, worship prompted by God's omniscience and immanence, praise at God's works (the fearfully and wonderfully made phraseology originates here), and so on. Toward the end of the prayer, the inspired writer takes sides vehemently. God has enemies. The writer will therefore be their enemy and "hate them with perfect hatred." Bro. Steve |
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GregK |
Which side do we err on? | #3 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 526 11/05/09 03:28 PM Pioneer |
There are definitely passages in the Bible that justify hating the wicked, but I can't think of any that command us to hate the wicked, so it seems to
me safer not to. After all, are we sure we know which people it's safe to hate?
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wormjacob |
But I say love your enemies; pray for those who persecute you... (nt) | #4 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 2074 11/05/09 06:43 PM |
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It's all the activity in my brain! It breaks through my skull and nourishes my follicles with exciting nutrients!
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Acidophilus |
Whatever we might want to do | #5 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 1599 11/05/09 07:05 PM |
. . . we naturally err on man's side.
Or -- here's another idea -- perhaps it's safe to hate the enemies of God as an abstract class of people, but never assume that any individual is in that class. I think that's right. Much of scripture is revelation about the perfect nature of God in contrast with the corrupt nature of man. That is, they reflect "God's ways not man's ways." King David, I believe, is meditating on how he should be were he the perfect man representing the perfection of God. What is available to us, as you said, is understanding certain objective things about abstract classes of people. But we are not the judge of any individual as part of those classes at any point in time or eternity. |
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earl40 |
Heil Hitler. | #6 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 2161 11/05/09 08:50 PM |
Kiss that individual?
never ever I am happy you posted because you writings prompted me to ask about the despot in my example. May I ask you why you can't hate Hitler? Or better yet could you love an repentant murderer of you children?
Earl,A man married to a girl named Tina.
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quickbeam of fangorn |
I don't thik hate is very helpful | #7 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 296 11/05/09 09:14 PM |
shun is likely a better word.
IMO as long as the individual is alive they still have God's spark and God may yet call the individual to repent, so I don't think we should hate the individual. After their dead it doesn't really matter as far as I can tell until someone attempt's to resurrect the individuals evils.
Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other
generations.Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison
When plunder becomes a way of life for a goupp of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it - Frederic Bastiast |
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ovbc |
I don't know. I was just pointing out that texts like this do exist. (nt) | #8 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 5310 11/06/09 10:16 AM |
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GregK |
I don't see much point in hating Hitler | #9 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 527 11/06/09 10:18 AM Pioneer |
Since he's dead.
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GregK |
I don't see much point in hating Hitler | #10 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 528 11/06/09 10:21 AM Pioneer |
... because he's dead.
Hating seems like a waste of energy. I have no objection to taking violent action against people in certain circumstances. I don't know that I have to hate them to do that. (BTW -- if this is a duplicate post I apologize. I posted a reply and then it suddenly disappeared.) |
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Goldberry of Withywindle |
I think that's right. | #11 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 12565 11/06/09 12:14 PM High Muckety Muck |
I'm not sure why Earl needs to justify hating Hitler, since he's never going to be called upon to be nice to him. Ever. I actually can't think of a
good reason to put any effort into forming a personal opinion of Hitler (not that we don't all have one instinctively) since Hitler's dead, and
he'll never come back, and any "Hitler-like" action or advocacy in the future can be judged on its own merits, not its similarity to Hitler or
lack thereof. Or so it seems to me.
That said, the Bible definitely gives warrant for hatred, and while a lot of me wants to agree with Wayne, I think David did have specific people in mind at various points in his life that he wished evil upon (cf. Psalms), and it does appear that he did so righteously. Maybe the thing to keep in mind is that insofar as we fall short of "perfect hatred," there will always be aspects of that hatred that we need to repent of, without necessarily renouncing the hatred per se. Even if there is a justifiable and righteous "way to hate," I'm pretty sure we'll never be able to do it without mixing in some evil thoughts and actions. If you can't even love someone without sinning against him, well.... So, if you think you're on good ground hating so and so, ask yourself how you sinned anyway in that hatred.
God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy. -- Billy Currington
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ovbc |
If I were doing a Venn diagram for an apologetics class... | #12 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 5312 11/06/09 01:13 PM |
I might be inclined to say that we should love our enemies but hate God's
enemies. Those in the set of God's enemies would include Satan and his angels, but we don't have any of the other ones identified yet. So it becomes
an abstraction useful only for setting up a certain mentality. That is, in daily practice we love everybody, but we still recognize there's a war going
on. So without picking out particular individuals on whom to heap our hatred, we know that God knows who they are and we ratify that in principle.
(All of which looks like mush when it's written out... but there it is. It's my day to write stuff like this, and besides, I've been working night shift for weeks on end...) Bro. Steve |
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quickbeam of fangorn |
I like that | #13 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 300 11/06/09 03:22 PM |
but we don't have any of the other ones identified yet. You can break down fallen angels into:
Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other
generations.Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison
When plunder becomes a way of life for a goupp of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it - Frederic Bastiast |
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wormjacob |
Dionysius, nice to have you here :-) (nt) | #14 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 2076 11/06/09 03:47 PM |
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It's all the activity in my brain! It breaks through my skull and nourishes my follicles with exciting nutrients!
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quickbeam of fangorn |
Your too youn in the fiath to know that one | #15 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 301 11/06/09 04:07 PM |
;>)
Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other
generations.Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison
When plunder becomes a way of life for a goupp of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it - Frederic Bastiast |
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SteveShack |
re: But I say love your enemies; pray for those who persecute you.. | #16 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 887 11/06/09 04:50 PM |
Funny how easily Jesus puts it all into perspective.
Simplicity.
Patience. Compassion. |
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quickbeam of fangorn |
"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, | #17 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 302 11/06/09 05:44 PM |
with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.
Question would placing a millstone around ones neck and casting them into the sea be considered "hate"?
Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other
generations.Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison
When plunder becomes a way of life for a goupp of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it - Frederic Bastiast |
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SteveShack |
He didn't say it would happen. | #18 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 890 11/06/09 08:15 PM |
quickbeam of fangorn wrote:He said it would be better for them than if a millstone were hung around his neck. It's called a metaphor to make a point. Literalizing the metaphor misses the point.
Simplicity.
Patience. Compassion. |
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quickbeam of fangorn |
Agreed its a metaphor | #19 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 303 11/06/09 08:28 PM |
but it does happen and therefore the metaphor is apt.
The lesson is that those who would cause an individual to to stumble (its open ended) so its both those who would mislead by example(i.e. their actions) or by their beliefs. The result is that death by drowning would be better then what is in store for such individuals. That applies to me when or if I attempt to mislead you in the faith or you me -agreed?
Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other
generations.Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison
When plunder becomes a way of life for a goupp of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it - Frederic Bastiast |
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earl40 |
The point being is that hell is worse than dying a horrible death. | #20 | ||
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Settler
Posts: 2162 11/06/09 09:21 PM |
nt
Earl,A man married to a girl named Tina.
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- The Village Treasury
- The Settlers' Village
- The Theological Mechanics' Institute
- The Society for Prayer
- The Reading Room
- The Country Kitchen
- Village Vaults - Sep/Oct 2001
- Village Vaults - Nov/Dec 2001
- Village Vaults - Jan 2002
- Village Vaults - Feb 2002
- Village Vaults - Mar 2002
- Village Vaults - Apr/May 2002
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- Village Vaults - Jul 2004 - Feb 2005
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- Village Vaults - Dec 2006 - Jun 2007
- Village Vaults - Jun 2007 - Jan 2008
- TMI Vaults thru May 2002
- TMI Vaults - June 2002 thru Feb 2003
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- The Society for Prayer -- Past Proceedings
- Reading Room Vaults - Dec 2001 - Feb 2005
- The Reading Room -- Used Book Collection
- The Country Kitchen -- Oldtime Recipes
- SFR Vaults - The Smoke Filled Room, 2004
