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Katie Von Bora
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Gay marriage defeated in Maine. |
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nt.
"All of
us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed
frequent instances of superintending providence in our
favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy
opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of
establishing our future national felicity. And have we
now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that
we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a
long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing
proofs I see of this truth—that God governs in the
affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire
can rise without his Aid?” —Benjamin Franklin
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docs1 |
A good vote! | #1 | ||
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Though the issue isn't going away any time soon.
"And it will be said in that day, "Behold, this is our God for whom we have waited that He might save us. This is the Lord for whom we have
waited; Let us rejoice and be glad in His salvation." (Isaiah 25:9)
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Katie Von Bora |
No... | #2 | ||
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But it's interesting that when it's left to the people to decide, it's voted down.
"All of
us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed
frequent instances of superintending providence in our
favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy
opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of
establishing our future national felicity. And have we
now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that
we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a
long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing
proofs I see of this truth—that God governs in the
affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire
can rise without his Aid?” —Benjamin Franklin
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ovbc |
I'm heartened that decency won. | #3 | ||
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So far, I believe I'm right in saying no state has ever voted in favor of homosexual marriage. It's disappointing that it was 99 to 1, but we'll
take what we can get for now. Rest assured: they'll be back.
Bro. Steve |
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moosebugs |
You are correct | #4 | ||
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In 31 states where the issue has been considered by referendum, gay "marriage" (so-called) has been defeated.
Byron "A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer down your pants"
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Katie Von Bora |
Yes, it has been defeated... | #5 | ||
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but Steve is right. This issue is not going away, and unless some sea-change occurs, I expect it will eventually become legal in all 50 states. Of course,
anything is possible, and the winds could easily change.
"All of
us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed
frequent instances of superintending providence in our
favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy
opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of
establishing our future national felicity. And have we
now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that
we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a
long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing
proofs I see of this truth—that God governs in the
affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire
can rise without his Aid?” —Benjamin Franklin
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Andy VA |
Have you seen the returns from WA? | #6 | ||
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FYI - the referendum on yesterday's Washington ballot referred to as "everything but marriage," looks to be passing. Today's paper says that
it was rejected soundly by voters east of the Cascades but as usual their votes are far outnumbered by the mass of humanity around Seattle.
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Katie Von Bora |
I just saw that on the news today... | #7 | ||
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and I have to say I'm not surprised - I grew up in Seattle. Yes, unfortunately, in many ways Washington is two states - the relatively small area ringed by
the Olympic mountains, the Peninsula, Puget Sound and the Cascades - and the rest of the state east of the mountains. It has two distinct climate zones: the
wet, maritime climate west of the mountains, and the colder, arid climate east of the mountains. The interesting thing is that while many of the people living
in Western Washington are actually quite conservative, they are, as you point out, outnumbered by those who aren't, and they far outnumber the more
conservative citizens of Eastern Washington.
This is, of course, how i t will probably come about. Rather than "marriage," proponents will probably back off trying to force any pro gay-marriage agenda on the country and accept referenda similar to that passed in Washington State, since these seem to be relatively innocuous where most voters are concerned, and even fair. And eventually, the concept of marriage will be accepted by default if not in name.
"All of
us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed
frequent instances of superintending providence in our
favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy
opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of
establishing our future national felicity. And have we
now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that
we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a
long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing
proofs I see of this truth—that God governs in the
affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the
Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire
can rise without his Aid?” —Benjamin Franklin
Last Edited By: Katie Von Bora 11/06/09 04:42 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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SteveShack |
Voting on civil rights. | #8 | ||
Katie Von Bora wrote:If we had left it up to the vote to free slaves in individual states, we'd still have slavery in this country.
Simplicity.
Patience. Compassion. |
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wormjacob |
Hmm...I doubt that | #9 | ||
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I think that abolishing slavery was going to happen in our country, as it did elsewhere, without the need for war. The slaveholders were a small minority,
even in the south. If the Civil War didn't happen, I think it is quite likely that a popular vote would have swung in favor of abolishing slavery at some
point in the 1800's.
It's all the activity in my brain! It breaks through my skull and nourishes my follicles with exciting nutrients!
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SteveShack |
Should we put all civil rights up to a vote? | #10 | ||
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As for your assertion that slavery would have ended anyway, upon what do you base this? The love Southern white people have for Blacks? I grew up there. Hell,
if they held a vote for slavery today, it would win.
Simplicity.
Patience. Compassion. |
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quickbeam of fangorn |
I for one don't believe in civil rights | #11 | ||
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I don't believe that the gov't grants rights to individuals or society in general. its human rights given by the Creator not gov't.
Sorry I guess its off topic.
Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other
generations.Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison
When plunder becomes a way of life for a goupp of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it - Frederic Bastiast |
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OldManBlue |
Actually spot on | #12 | ||
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ovbc |
That's male bovine manure. | #13 | ||
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I grew up in the Pine Bluff, Arkansas and was among the first in the nation to be forcibly integrated. And I also remember when the same thing happend in
Boston in the 1970s, and those liberal white Yankees staged race riots, tumping over buses and burning cars.
Society has moved away from that now. Nobody would vote for slavery today in either place, and you know it. By the same token, nobody in either place would vote for any more federally mandated social tampering. Bro. Steve |
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Nevski |
I explained this once to you here in detail. | #14 | ||
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Don't you remember?
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jco2003 |
The civil right in question is "the right to marry" | #15 | ||
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That is a fundamental right, and no one is being denied it. Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. That is the way the framers of the Constitution
understood it, and that was what it meant when put into the Constitution.
"Gay marriage" is an entirely different concept, and institution. Right now there is no right to it in the Constitution. It could be put there by constitutional Amendment. |
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wormjacob |
My assertion was based on what happened in other lands that also loved their slavery | #16 | ||
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I fall on the side that believes that Civil War was not a necessary precursor to the ending of slavery.
It's all the activity in my brain! It breaks through my skull and nourishes my follicles with exciting nutrients!
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Nat Whilk |
Abraham Lincoln once asked... | #17 | ||
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..."how many legs does a dog have, if you count its tail as a leg?" The response that the dog would then have five legs was met by Lincoln with,
"No, the dog would have four legs. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."
If somebody wants to call his four-legged dog a five legged-dog on the basis that the tail is really a leg, I have no objection, unless he wants to force the rest of us to go along with the farce. Similarly, if two people of the same sex want to go around saying they're married, I have no objection unless they want to force the rest of us to recognize something as being what it can't in fact be. No one has the civil right to conscript the common language to advance their own private agendas.
"So let us not talk falsely now; the hour is getting late." [i][Bob Dylan][/i]
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quickbeam of fangorn |
Agreed, but | #18 | ||
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the gov't should permit benefits and civil contracts to account for these relationships.
There isn't any issue as far as the current law goes with respect to discrimination that I can tell. I can't marry a man as a heterosexual. The same goes for a heterosexual woman. Hence it seems to me that the law applies equally to both the gay and the heterosexual. Neither parties are permitted under the law to marry a member of the same sex. The only way IMO to make a case is if you create some different gender or sex classification and then make the case that you should have the same standing as race, gender and religion for discrimination.
Each generation should be made to bear the burden of its own wars, instead of carrying them on, at the expense of other
generations.Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government. - James Madison
When plunder becomes a way of life for a goupp of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it - Frederic Bastiast |
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Dewydd |
Quick! Before Corzine's gone! | #19 | ||
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"No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are his accomplices." - Edward R. Murrow
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ovbc |
I see no reason to do this. | #20 | ||
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Creating a special enclave where we accommodate evil is not a proper function of government.
Bro. Steve |
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