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SFR Vaults - The Smoke Filled Room, 2004

Please note: The Smoke Filled Room is now in permanent archive status.

Welcome to The Smoke Filled Room. In days of old, in parts of the USA, a smoke filled room was where political deals were brokered and broken. The term has since come to mean any place where people meet to make a weighty decision.

We don't expect very many weighty decisions to be made here, but this is the place for a vigorous discussion on politics. The rules of exchange and decorum are the same here as in other parts of the village.

Like the rest of A Better Country, The Smoke-Filled Room is a discussion board with a Reformed Christian perspective and a commitment to the authority of scripture. We ask that the discussion here be biblically informed. Participants should be able to defend their positions fromscripture.

As always, Be Excellent to Each Other. You will find people here that disagree with you. That does not make them less a Christian, or less a human being. We all bear the imago dei, and if we are in Christ, then we are one.

Choose your words carefully, make your points plainly, and have a blast!


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SFR Vaults - The Smoke Filled Room, 2004

  Topic Title
Sticky Topic Announcement Concerning the Closing of The Smoke Filled Room - moosebugs - (1) - 11/04/04 11:11 PM
    The Smoke Filled Room is now officially closed - moosebugs - 11/04/04 11:11 PM
Hot Topic w/ No New Posts I have a growing sense of disquiet about this election. - Ken Abbott - (26) - 12/31/04 05:00 PM
    -dp- - Zerubbabel - 10/22/04 09:13 AM
    Fear not - Zerubbabel - 10/22/04 09:14 AM
       Forbid federalization! (Can you say constitutional crisis) - jetbrane - 10/22/04 02:04 PM
          Would it be possible... - Goldberry of Withywindle - 10/22/04 02:07 PM
             Why can't... - Kootenay Badger - 10/27/04 11:58 PM
                We do - Perisseuo - 10/28/04 04:25 AM
          ISTM that what's just as likely to happen - Constance01 - 10/22/04 02:15 PM
             Which fits perfectly w/ Bill Clinton wanting to be UN head - jetbrane - 10/22/04 02:19 PM
                In theory, I'm very anti-conspiracy - Constance01 - 10/22/04 02:20 PM
          Should be a reminder - Perisseuo - 10/22/04 04:12 PM
             Unknown - Unregistered(d) - 12/31/04 05:00 PM
                Robert Reich - JohnBugay - 10/26/04 02:53 AM
                   Robert Reich is an economic socialist! - SteelShot01 - 10/26/04 07:49 AM
                      Re: Robert Reich is an economic socialist! - JohnBugay - 10/26/04 01:44 PM
                   The Pareto Principle - The Gnu - 10/26/04 01:38 PM
                      Re: The Pareto Principle - JohnBugay - 10/26/04 01:53 PM
                         One factor... - Jimborewski - 10/26/04 02:13 PM
                            Re: One factor... - JohnBugay - 10/26/04 02:25 PM
                               Loophole or no... - Jimborewski - 10/26/04 02:53 PM
                                  fair enough - JohnBugay - 10/26/04 04:14 PM
                               It does cut both ways - Perisseuo - 10/26/04 05:15 PM
                                  Not outsourcing jobs doesn't favor the rich - jetbrane - 10/26/04 05:30 PM
                                     Sorry, don;t understand your post - Perisseuo - 10/26/04 07:15 PM
                                  Re: It does cut both ways - JohnBugay - 10/27/04 10:52 AM
                         Re: The Pareto Principle - The Gnu - 10/27/04 08:41 AM
          Re: Forbid federalization! (Can you say constitutional crisi - Zerubbabel - 10/22/04 05:30 PM
Ya know what I see for the Dems in '08? - Jimborewski - (22) - 11/05/04 10:42 PM
    The Dem's only hope is immigration - jetbrane - 11/03/04 02:16 PM
       It would be cancelled out by emigration - Nat Whilk - 11/03/04 05:18 PM
       Its still a slim majority /' minority - Perisseuo - 11/03/04 05:45 PM
    I've got a dark horse for you. - Craigellachie - 11/03/04 05:24 PM
       And his Dad ran for the office in the Dem Primaries in 72 - MrsBrane - 11/03/04 06:54 PM
          I dunno, Bret - Craigellachie - 11/03/04 10:18 PM
    Re: Ya know what I see for the Dems in '08? - ArtieTexas - 11/03/04 09:43 PM
    Look for a Democratic governor - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 02:00 AM
       What about our own Mr. Bredesen? - Phillip B - 11/04/04 10:35 AM
          Have not even considered Gov. Bredeson - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 10:45 AM
    Also,.... - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 02:33 AM
       Another question might be - Perisseuo - 11/04/04 06:44 AM
          Good question - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 06:55 AM
             Rick Perry??? - The Clinging Vine - 11/04/04 08:54 AM
                IMO, that party is in deep weeds - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 10:41 AM
                   Thing is, Texans can be a schizophrenic bunch... - The Clinging Vine - 11/04/04 10:44 AM
                      Does Dallas represent how all Texans are? - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 10:50 AM
                         BITE YOUR TONGUE! - The Clinging Vine - 11/04/04 11:02 AM
                         Re: Does Dallas represent how all Texans are? - ArtieTexas - 11/05/04 01:05 AM
                When we lived in Houston - AsinusSpinasMasticans - 11/04/04 12:56 PM
    I surely hope not... - The Clinging Vine - 11/04/04 08:55 AM
       ...because if we're still in Iraq in '08 - Andy VA - 11/05/04 10:42 PM
Almost forgot about this.... - Jimborewski - (1) - 11/05/04 07:55 PM
    Thanks! I'll watch! - Irenicum - 11/05/04 07:55 PM
For those who want action concerning Specter - Unregistered(d) - (24) - 11/05/04 05:47 PM
    Re: For those who want action concerning Specter - The Gnu - 11/04/04 02:41 PM
       Thank you, John - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 02:43 PM
    Thanks, Mac - Zerubbabel - 11/04/04 02:47 PM
    Thanks, Mac. Just sent off an email to him. - Jimborewski - 11/04/04 03:40 PM
    Here is another one where you can contact Dr. Frist - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 04:42 PM
       You rock, Mac. - Zerubbabel - 11/04/04 04:58 PM
    Well done. Thanks! - cparks - 11/04/04 05:02 PM
    Thanks, Mac. I e-mailed him, too - wormjacob - 11/04/04 05:09 PM
    Excellent thanks! I'll send him an email tonight - SteelShot01 - 11/04/04 05:32 PM
    Thanks Mac. An e-mail has gone out from here. - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/04/04 10:34 PM
    I sent an email this afternoon. - Phillip B - 11/04/04 10:41 PM
       Don't be silly, Phillip, you've emailed ME lots of times. - The Clinging Vine - 11/04/04 11:29 PM
    Thanks Mac... Sent... And... - TeedOff - 11/05/04 12:25 AM
    The Tennessee Senator hears from a Michigan resident - jetbrane - 11/05/04 09:20 AM
       Well done! - Zerubbabel - 11/05/04 11:25 AM
       Wow. Your letter beat the crudpuppies outta mine. - The Clinging Vine - 11/05/04 12:16 PM
       Excellent letter Bret! - SteelShot01 - 11/05/04 12:29 PM
       If you haven't sent it yet... - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/05/04 12:31 PM
       I agree with the others - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/05/04 02:01 PM
          Would it hurt anything were I to send an addendum email... - The Clinging Vine - 11/05/04 02:08 PM
    He's now heard from Texas, The State That Counts. - The Clinging Vine - 11/05/04 11:04 AM
       And a Massachusetts-ian. A State that is... - Zerubbabel - 11/05/04 11:28 AM
    Just sent him my email - Johnny Wockenfuss - 11/05/04 02:36 PM
       Mine was sent out yesterday. Thanks, Mac. - wormjacob - 11/05/04 05:47 PM
I haven't conceded yet! - Johnny Wockenfuss - (16) - 11/05/04 04:34 PM
    That's the spirit! - The Clinging Vine - 11/03/04 01:10 PM
       No, I've seen Wookie in a dress - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/03/04 05:01 PM
          I'll give you ten bucks for that picture, Bub. - QueenJfer - 11/03/04 10:43 PM
    We've had a really pathetic voter turnout here - Constance01 - 11/03/04 01:13 PM
       And I understand some of them are underage! (nt) - Phillip B - 11/03/04 02:27 PM
          This is an outrage! - Constance01 - 11/03/04 02:55 PM
    Keep Charging! - Potemkyn - 11/03/04 01:39 PM
    Uh... yeah. Not till every vote is counted and such! - Zerubbabel - 11/03/04 04:45 PM
    Is there still time to vote? - wormjacob - 11/03/04 09:21 PM
       I think you're automaticly registered - Constance01 - 11/03/04 11:25 PM
          I did it! I voted. 11-0, Good Guys Lead! - wormjacob - 11/04/04 01:17 PM
    What about a good old fashioned coup? - cparks - 11/03/04 11:13 PM
       By golly, I like a man who thinks outside the box. - The Clinging Vine - 11/03/04 11:55 PM
          We're not ruling anything out at this point - Johnny Wockenfuss - 11/05/04 02:57 PM
             Far be it from me to be a naysayer, but... - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/05/04 03:13 PM
             Like Anne said.... - cparks - 11/05/04 04:34 PM
Bush as False Teacher, by Doug Wilson - Javaman1 - (20) - 11/05/04 03:22 PM
    Perhaps rebuking will be private - SteelShot01 - 10/28/04 09:36 AM
       Yeah, private just like the Sin - jetbrane - 10/28/04 12:00 PM
       It has been private - Javaman1 - 10/28/04 12:04 PM
          Hey, who wrote that quote you have at the bottom - jetbrane - 10/28/04 12:08 PM
             Re: Hey, who wrote that quote you have at the bottom - Javaman1 - 10/28/04 12:20 PM
    Bush is not a teacher. He is a military leader. - Zerubbabel - 10/29/04 09:50 AM
       You mean Military Leaders don't teach by example? - jetbrane - 10/29/04 01:54 PM
          Yes. But not theology. - Zerubbabel - 10/29/04 02:30 PM
             Everything is Theology - jetbrane - 10/29/04 03:51 PM
                So the president is the head of the church.... - cparks - 10/29/04 04:05 PM
                   Which Church? - jetbrane - 10/29/04 04:18 PM
                      Doesn't matter.... - cparks - 10/29/04 04:35 PM
                         Sure it matters - jetbrane - 10/29/04 04:59 PM
                            What's a BCF? - cparks - 10/29/04 05:09 PM
                               Belgic Confession of Faith - jetbrane - 10/29/04 06:27 PM
                                  I see... - cparks - 10/29/04 06:33 PM
                                     Well, we all have our allegiances - jetbrane - 10/29/04 10:52 PM
    Re: Bush as False Teacher, by Doug Wilson - TheIronHare - 11/01/04 03:41 PM
       Absolom was no legitimate king. - Craigellachie - 11/02/04 01:26 PM
          Yes, I know. I was being... - TheIronHare - 11/05/04 03:22 PM
Hot Topic w/ No New Posts A brief case for pragmatism - On the Road to Emmaus - (30) - 11/05/04 01:58 PM
    Say What? ... Are you sure about this? - jetbrane - 10/29/04 11:53 AM
       I'm not guilty for the present state of the contest - On the Road to Emmaus - 10/29/04 12:31 PM
          Can't handle Muster(d) on your hot dog argument - jetbrane - 10/29/04 01:36 PM
             I'm curious what you think this could mean: - On the Road to Emmaus - 10/30/04 01:31 AM
                Not everything on the planet is adiaphora Hal AND - MrsBrane - 10/30/04 09:20 AM
                   OK, we've made progress - On the Road to Emmaus - 10/30/04 11:02 AM
                      Hal, there is to much here and right now I don't have time - jetbrane - 10/30/04 02:00 PM
                         I wonder how long it would take - Constance01 - 10/30/04 02:59 PM
                         Ummm, have you perchance ever noticed - On the Road to Emmaus - 10/31/04 01:51 AM
                      Taps for Hal's irrefutable argument -- slight edit - jetbrane - 11/01/04 11:27 AM
                         Well, you can relax. - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/01/04 03:49 PM
                            You're right Hal ... Truth is relative and as such - MrsBrane - 11/01/04 04:51 PM
                               Too bad that in order for you to win our jousts, - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/01/04 08:40 PM
                                  I didn't say I won the joust...I only said I enjoyed them - jetbrane - 11/01/04 09:34 PM
                                     OK, how's this? - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/01/04 10:08 PM
                                        Answers...but I am not going on forever in this direction - jetbrane - 11/02/04 12:03 AM
                                           Thank you - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/02/04 01:06 AM
                                           My comments - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/02/04 03:38 PM
                                              Do I need to be 100% certain that I am only 75% certain - jetbrane - 11/03/04 02:49 AM
                                                 One for the archives... - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/05/04 01:58 PM
    What do you make of this? - thelaughinglindenbranch(d) - 10/31/04 02:58 AM
       It just confirms to me that there is - On the Road to Emmaus - 10/31/04 07:28 PM
          I would disagree in part... - thelaughinglindenbranch(d) - 10/31/04 11:03 PM
             That's clearer to me now - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/01/04 01:08 AM
       I think you make excellent points - Nat Whilk - 10/31/04 08:41 PM
          On the last matter, I wholly concur - thelaughinglindenbranch(d) - 10/31/04 10:49 PM
             You're right. Both are needed for the reasons you state. - Nat Whilk - 10/31/04 11:05 PM
       If you haven't already. . . - The Gnu - 11/01/04 09:03 AM
          Rather than being conflicting approaches... - thelaughinglindenbranch(d) - 11/01/04 04:49 PM
             Re: Rather than being conflicting approaches... - The Gnu - 11/02/04 10:56 AM
A profound thank you Mucks... - TeedOff - (1) - 11/05/04 01:20 PM
    Agreed! - SteelShot01 - 11/05/04 01:20 PM
Hot Topic w/ No New Posts Spectre weighs in and warns Bush about pro life judges - jetbrane - (41) - 11/05/04 09:33 AM
    Speaking of warnings - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 11:23 AM
       Re: Speaking of warnings - JohnBugay - 11/04/04 11:41 AM
          What are you talking about? - Zerubbabel - 11/04/04 11:55 AM
             Re: What are you talking about? - JohnBugay - 11/04/04 01:06 PM
          Not done under some of our noses - jetbrane - 11/04/04 12:34 PM
          Re: Speaking of warnings - ArtieTexas - 11/05/04 01:00 AM
             Re: Speaking of warnings - JohnBugay - 11/05/04 06:55 AM
    This is troubling - Zerubbabel - 11/04/04 11:58 AM
       This is indeed troubling - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 12:26 PM
          I can. - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/04/04 12:35 PM
             Pray tell ... how could President Kerry do damage? - jetbrane - 11/04/04 12:40 PM
                How about... - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/04/04 12:46 PM
             ISTM.... - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 12:46 PM
                Perhaps he meant.... - thelaughinglindenbranch(d) - 11/04/04 01:22 PM
                   The tragedy is... - Zerubbabel - 11/04/04 01:26 PM
                You miss understand me, Mac. - Zerubbabel - 11/04/04 01:24 PM
                   Precisely. - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/04/04 01:34 PM
       oops - JohnBugay - 11/04/04 01:09 PM
          Is this possible? - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 01:13 PM
             This doesn't seem likely. - Jimborewski - 11/04/04 01:23 PM
                Spector has stated that this is his last term... - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 01:45 PM
                   Last term? Didn't know that. - Jimborewski - 11/04/04 03:23 PM
                <respectfully> this explanation doesn't take into acc - jetbrane - 11/04/04 02:25 PM
    Laura Ingraham was all over this issue - SteelShot01 - 11/04/04 12:30 PM
       LOL ... that assumes the GOP is Conservative - jetbrane - 11/04/04 12:36 PM
          John Thune - SteelShot01 - 11/04/04 01:23 PM
          "Neo-cons don't count" - Zerubbabel - 11/04/04 03:04 PM
    Who's zooming who? - 16HP - 11/04/04 04:28 PM
       Where is this info? - SteelShot01 - 11/04/04 05:38 PM
          Re: Where is this info? - 16HP - 11/04/04 07:00 PM
             Not quite right - Perisseuo - 11/04/04 09:53 PM
                You mean there are Republicans more liberal than Spectre - jetbrane - 11/04/04 09:56 PM
                Re: Not quite right - 16HP - 11/04/04 10:02 PM
                   True, but... - Zerubbabel - 11/05/04 09:24 AM
          Actually Paul, Time Magazine in 2003 suggested Gonzalez - jetbrane - 11/04/04 09:01 PM
             Hey, not all of us read Time. - The Clinging Vine - 11/04/04 09:07 PM
                I don't either but when I googled Gonzalez & Supreme Ct. - jetbrane - 11/04/04 09:46 PM
                   Re: I don't either but when I googled Gonzalez & Supreme - Perisseuo - 11/04/04 09:56 PM
                      Re: I don't either but when I googled Gonzalez & Supreme - 16HP - 11/04/04 10:08 PM
    I'm not a fan of Specter by a long shot, but... - Nat Whilk - 11/04/04 08:02 PM
       That's promising, Nat. - Zerubbabel - 11/05/04 09:33 AM
Talk about having a Bad Day. - The Clinging Vine - (1) - 11/04/04 05:04 PM
    Agreed - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 05:04 PM
For an election day chuckle... - The Clinging Vine - (4) - 11/04/04 11:22 AM
    in Knoxville - Unregistered(d) - 11/03/04 10:40 PM
       How does one... - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/04/04 01:53 AM
          Mine are precipitous - Constance01 - 11/04/04 11:22 AM
    Hey, anybody that listens to.... - moosebugs - 11/04/04 09:07 AM
The Next Four Years... - Craigellachie - (4) - 11/04/04 10:34 AM
    Re: The Next Four Years... - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/03/04 06:00 PM
    Repent - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 01:55 AM
       OK, how does that get encouraged? - Craigellachie - 11/04/04 07:50 AM
          Prayer - Unregistered(d) - 11/04/04 10:34 AM
Goodbye, SFR> - The Gnu - (6) - 11/03/04 06:44 PM
    Re: Goodbye, SFR> - jetbrane - 11/02/04 12:58 PM
       Re: Goodbye, SFR> - wormjacob - 11/02/04 09:37 PM
       Re: Goodbye, SFR> - JohnBugay - 11/03/04 06:44 PM
    Re: Goodbye, SFR> - ArtieTexas - 11/02/04 11:03 PM
    Re: Goodbye, SFR> - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/03/04 01:10 AM
    Goodbye SFR! - SteelShot01 - 11/03/04 05:09 PM
It's over. - Jimborewski - (5) - 11/03/04 06:28 PM
    Doggone you, Jimbo. You news hog, you! - The Clinging Vine - 11/03/04 12:21 PM
       Have no dogs, so there not gone. Neither here nor there. - Jimborewski - 11/03/04 12:52 PM
          sorry, that's they're. Not there. - Jimborewski - 11/03/04 12:52 PM
    Thanks be to God. - Craigellachie - 11/03/04 02:50 PM
    Letting 'er rip at Novae Militiae - Nevski - 11/03/04 06:28 PM
Where can I find aggregate vote totals for all candidates? - moosebugs - (0) - 11/03/04 02:12 PM
Kerry's going to concede. - The Clinging Vine - (2) - 11/03/04 01:12 PM
    Should Wookie concede? - Jimborewski - 11/03/04 12:53 PM
       Wookies NEVER concede. - The Clinging Vine - 11/03/04 01:12 PM
There must have been a mistake - Jennifer - (3) - 11/03/04 12:23 PM
    Oh, fiddlesticks! - Jennifer - 11/02/04 02:50 PM
    well - 100% certainly implies a mandate!!!! - QueenJfer - 11/03/04 10:51 AM
    We are going to wait until... - Zerubbabel - 11/03/04 12:23 PM
Well that was interesting! - On the Road to Emmaus - (4) - 11/03/04 12:25 AM
    I'd've abstained - Constance01 - 11/02/04 04:58 PM
    Re: Well that was interesting! - Georgianlady - 11/02/04 05:42 PM
    Casting a presidential ballot in Oklahoma? Don't bother - Georgianlady - 11/02/04 05:57 PM
       Thank you for digging all that up for me! - On the Road to Emmaus - 11/03/04 12:25 AM
Who to vote for...? Who to vote for...? - Jennifer - (21) - 11/02/04 10:53 AM
    That's a no-brainer.... - The Clinging Vine - 11/01/04 05:03 PM
       Great Idea!!! - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:14 PM
    Re: Who to vote for...? Who to vote for...? - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:04 PM
    No, no. This guy... - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:09 PM
    Go for the little guy!! - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:11 PM
    Him... - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:17 PM
    Write in!! - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:18 PM
    Hmmmmm... - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:21 PM
    Re: Who to vote for...? Who to vote for...? - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:22 PM
    Go for squeaky... - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:26 PM
       I have to confess it.... - Goldberry of Withywindle - 11/02/04 12:53 AM
    'cause I'm really smart... - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:28 PM
    thphhhhtt!! - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:30 PM
    Re: Who to vote for...? Who to vote for...? - Jennifer - 11/01/04 05:32 PM
    In these times of trouble and turmoil, only one man will do. - Jennifer - 11/01/04 06:27 PM
       That ain't John Kerry or George W!! - SteelShot01 - 11/01/04 06:31 PM
    Why not him? - Jennifer - 11/02/04 08:55 AM
       No reason at all! - The Clinging Vine - 11/02/04 09:05 AM
    I know! I know! - Jennifer - 11/02/04 08:58 AM
       Jennifer. Honey. - Jennifer - 11/02/04 10:13 AM
          No kidding. - Jennifer - 11/02/04 10:53 AM

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